Welcome back to Create the Space with Cody Maher, the podcast where we dive deep into what it means to intentionally shape a life around your highest truth, purpose, and vision. In today’s episode, Cody sits down with Liam Naden, a speaker, author, and neuroscience-based success coach who’s dedicated his life to helping people break free from stress, struggle, and self-sabotage—by teaching us how to use our brains the way nature intended. Liam’s story is anything but ordinary. After achieving all the external markers of success—money, freedom, and even his own dream home—he found himself deeply unfulfilled and lost. His journey took him from rock bottom to an unexpected renaissance, sailing around the world and rediscovering what it means to thrive. What changed? He let go of the stories that kept him stuck and started living more instinctively, tapping into the brain’s natural intelligence. Together, Cody and Liam Naden unpack why struggle has become so normalized in our society, how language and storytelling shape our perception of problems, and how we can rewire our habits to restore balance and fulfillment. They explore the importance of dropping attachment to outcomes, how this perspective transforms relationships, health, and productivity, and why returning to our innate instincts might be the key to real lasting change—even in the midst of modern life. If you’re ready to step out of your old narratives and create space for thriving, inspiration, and joy, this conversation is for you. So get comfortable, open your mind, and enjoy this episode of Create the Space with Cody Maher.
Learn more about Liam and his work: liamnaden.com
Cody [00:00:02]:
Good morning, friends. This is the fourth time I've hit record because I just keep bumbling and stumbling and messing up words and all the things. So it's been a minute. Hi. I am honestly struggling putting this podcast out in the frequency that I wish to put it out, which is weekly. So honestly, if you know any podcast producers, send them my way. Today I have a really cool conversation with you guys. His name is Liam Naden and he's a speaker and author and a neuroscience based success coach who helps people overcome stress, self sabotage and struggle by teaching them how to use their brain the way nature designed it. So his story is really unique and interesting and I am going to just jump right into this conversation so that I don't have to say anything more about it. You could just listen and then I'll be back later to chat with you. Enjoy this conversation with Liam. Hi, Liam.
Liam Naden [00:01:00]:
Hi, Cody.
Cody [00:01:01]:
Welcome.
Liam Naden [00:01:02]:
Thanks for having me on your show.
Cody [00:01:03]:
We were on the same track. Thank you for being here. So I know where you're speaking to me from, but let's just tell everybody, let's start with a little bit, just a little bit of general information. So who you are, where we're chatting from and we'll go from there.
Liam Naden [00:01:18]:
Okay. Well, my name is Liam Naden and I'm speaking to you from Denmark, Sunny Denmark, which is middle of summer. It's a beautiful place to be. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this conversation and I think what I'd really like people to get out of this at the end of it is a completely different way of looking at life and answering the question, why do we have problems when we're not actually designed to? And I hope to give the answer to that through this conversation.
Cody [00:01:46]:
Well, buckle up everyone, because that is an amazing intention. So thank you so much for that and thank you for being here and I'm excited to hear the answer. But let's tease people a little bit for a little bit, shall we? Let's make them, make them wait for that big answer. But just kidding, guys, I love you, but I want to know before we get to these big questions, a little bit about who you are and what makes you qualified to answer those questions or what experience have you had? What wisdom do you carry to come to this place?
Liam Naden [00:02:16]:
Well, I guess probably like most of the people listening, I've always been a person looking for answers and looking for the answer to the big question. How can I make the most out of my life? How can I have a really great life? I don't want to just exist. I want to do some exciting things. I want to really find the meaning of life, if you like. I want to travel and have freedom and all those things that many people think about, but not many people really chase after. But I was a chaser. I was chasing after all of those things. And so I sort of stumbled, if you like, into my own businesses. I've had 18 different businesses in my life. I've always been an entrepreneur. And alongside, really working on having my own business and making lots of money and getting rich, which is what I thought the key to happiness and freedom was. As well as that I was a real student of success in the sense that I'd read every book I could on self help or personal development or mindset or goal setting or spirituality or healing modalities, meditation. And so I read all these books and I used to go to lots of seminars as well and workshops with all of the big names and do courses and, you know, online courses, although back in the day they weren't really online. You had to get stuff mailed to. You had a library of all of this sort of stuff. And I was an expert on everything from NLP to goal setting, as I said, to mindset and meditation and the law of Attraction. And I really worked on all of these things. I really worked on developing my brain and my mind and changing my beliefs and working out what my values and goals were and getting really clear on what I thought I wanted out of my life. And I had it all mapped out and I was practicing all of these things. And things were, in a funny sort of way, working to a point. Because I did become wealthy, I became a millionaire, I had my own businesses, I had the freedom to do things that I wanted to do. But it always puzzled me deep down that I never really felt like I'd made it. I never really got that feeling of satisfaction. I always had lots of problems, lots of stress. And I bought into this idea that I'm sure most people thinking of is the truth, that problems are natural, problems are good for you. In fact, challenges and obstacles, that's how you grow, that's how you learn. That's what makes life meaningful, is overcoming challenges. And we in fact, admire people who we think have gone through great adversity and come out the other side. And we say, wow, you know, and we think that's the key to life. We think that's what it's all about, is just overcoming more and more problems. And instead of saying to ourself, well, actually, I really would like all the problems just to go away. What we think is, no, we need to be stronger. We need to accept that problems are a natural part of life. And if you don't accept that problems are a natural part of life, that means you're just dipping out, you're dropping out of life. And of course, we probably know of or can think of people that have sort of dropped out of life and sort of just avoided the problems in their life. So anyway, I never really got to that point, no matter how much money I had, how successful I was, that I thought I'd really made it. And I thought the key was just keep setting higher goals, just keep trying harder, just keep learning more things on how to refine the way you deal with life and become better at life, in other words. And all of that sounded good, but it didn't make my life any easier and it didn't make it any more rewarding, you know. And I kept thinking, I'm still not there yet. Maybe I'll never get there. Maybe this is what life is. But everything came to a real head one day when I had everything and I was literally just moved. I just moved into my brand new home that I just designed and built or had built my dream home. You know, this was like, this was everything I imagined and had in my goals list. Mapped out the sort of house I wanted. And I went into the music room, because I had a music room in it, and I sat down and I looked out through the windows at the mountains in the distance on a beautiful day. I thought, this is it, I've made it. Here I am again. I've reached another one of my major life goals. And if I look at my life, I've reached so many of my goals. I have my own businesses, I have freedom. I've done great things traveling and doing these great things. So I should be really satisfied and happy that I've achieved so much in my life. But instead, I actually felt completely and utterly miserable. In fact, I was so miserable I was almost shaking. I was shaking, I was almost in tears. And I thought, this is crazy. How do I find what I'm looking for? How much money do I need to make? How many goals do I need to achieve before I can really get rid of all the problems in my life and start to really feel like I am successful? I'm living the potential that I think is within me. I thought or a voice or something said, look, you'd be better off just getting rid of everything, starting again, losing it all. Because at least if you did that you wouldn't lose your soul, because that's what it felt like. I felt like I was just losing myself in all of the stress and the problems and the pressures that I had in my life. I couldn't enjoy the things I'd achieved. Well, literally within a few weeks or a couple of months, that is what happened. I did lose everything. And I became homeless and everything collapsed my marriage. I lost the house. I had multiple houses. I lost all of them. I lost all my money. And I ended up literally, with the clothes on my back and having to move back in with my elderly mother and sleep on the sofa in the living room of her small apartment. Now, this was so weird, because I had spent my life learning, I thought, and preparing myself to make sure that never happened to me. I'd done all the courses and studied how to be successful and your goals and how you use your mind and all the techniques. And I was a hard worker as well, and I was a skilled businessman, and I didn't do anything dishonest. But here I was with nothing. And I thought to myself, two things kept coming to mind. The first question was, why has this happened to me? Because I can show you my goals list. I can show you all my vision boards and everything mapped out, and I can show you my beliefs and what I think and what I believe. None of this was on my goals. Listen, to end up with nothing. And I thought, how could this have happened to me? All of the experts that I'd listened to and studied, they said, this won't happen if you follow my technique. This is how you be and stay successful. But here I was with nothing. And the second question I kept asking myself was, what do I do now? And I got out every technique I could think of in my head. Everything I'd learned about how to try and figure out what to do to get myself back on my feet and out of the mess and off my mother's sofa, which wasn't very comfortable, I must admit. So, and I did it all. I mapped everything out. I planned, I strategized. I used every technique I could think of to try and figure out how to get out of the hole, how to, you know, make some plans and find opportunities and do things that were going to get me back on track. And this went on for some time, literally weeks. But as time went on, what I found was, the more I tried to figure out why it had happened to me and what to do, the more I tried, more thinking I put into those, the more confused I became, the more stuck I became. And I just couldn't figure it out. I couldn't figure out why it had happened and what to do. And I just, you know, it's like that thing that happens, it's not just what's going on on the outside, it's all this mental torment that we create for ourselves on the inside. And so I had all this mental torment and I wasn't getting anywhere. You know, in the end, things were just piling onto me. More people wanted money that I didn't have. The pressures were coming on and I was becoming more and more stressed about how stuck I was. And in the end it just became too much. And I didn't do anything fatal, obviously. But I said to myself, you know, I'm just going to give up. I don't know the answer to those questions. I don't know why it's happened to me. I don't know what to do. I really don't have any energy for anything anymore. And what I didn't realize was I did something biological, but I actually changed the way I was using my brain. It was the explanation of what happened. But everything changed from that moment, literally because within weeks, opportunities started to show up, people started to show up, I got new ideas, things started to happen with no money. Remember within two or three months of that experience, I had my own business again and I was thriving again. I was making money, I was off my mother's sofa and all of these things started to fall into place. I met a new partner because my marriage had gone as well and we started this amazing relationship and we started to do all these amazing things like buy a brand new motorhome and travel all around my home country, New Zealand for 18 months and setting up three businesses while we were just traveling around. Then we moved to Europe on a one way ticket and a year after that we bought a brand new yacht and launched it and spent. What I'm still doing now mainly is sailing around the world on a yacht, managing my businesses at the same time. But what was really weird when all of these things started to fall into place was I was confused as to how this was happening because I thought to myself, why was it that I had all of this knowledge, all this information? I did everything the gurus told me to do, to work out what you want and put all the effort in and plan and strategize and take action and learn things. It all fell into a heap and left me very stressed and kept me very stressed. And this time around, what am I Doing well, I know what I'm not doing. I'm not setting any goals because here I was, things were just showing up. I'd given up the goal setting thing, but unexpected things. I never knew I'd be sailing around the world on a yacht or traveling around in motorhomes or having these businesses that I was having. I didn't know they weren't, you know, so I wasn't setting any goals and I wasn't chasing anything. I wasn't going after opportunities and saying, I need to make things happen. I need to make that happen. I wasn't doing any of that. I was just responding to what was actually going on in my environment. So I said to myself, and I remember this moment, which was in the Greek islands on my yacht, sitting there on a beautiful morning after just having had a swim and no one around, just next to a beautiful island. And I remember saying to myself, I need to figure out what I'm doing differently. Because what I've actually got, whatever I'm doing is I've got all those feelings that I really wanted. I don't have the problems and stress. Things are actually working in what seems a far more natural way than me trying to force and make things happen. And sure, as I say, I'm responding to what's going on, but I'm not forcing anything yet. All of these weird and wonderful things are happening. I need to figure out what I'm doing differently because whatever it is, I want to make sure it carries on. I don't want to mess it up this time around. And that's what I did. And it took me completely different direction as to where most people have gone with how we create the results we do in our life, which are both good and bad, obviously how we do that. And really, when I started joining all the dots together, I thought, you know, well, I didn't even think it. It just sort of happened. I started sharing this with people and it's all developed from there.
Cody [00:14:29]:
Wow, what a story. Thank you for sharing that so eloquently. And man, I have so many questions. It's hard to know where exactly to be. But I think, you know, I want to get into your technique of that's super important. So we'll get there, I promise. Guys, everyone's like, well, just tell us how they did it. Tell Liam, tell us how you did it. I want to do it too, but there's a couple things that I want to unravel because I know that there are people listening to podcasts that are like, Cool. That's amazing. That's just a unique story. That's just. Liam, that's not possible for me. So I think it's important to kind of go into a few of the details that you mentioned, which was how did you get your mind, which for however many years was so conditioned to strive and to, you know, set goals and make plans? And I know that there was a certain amount of desperation involved. Right. But that switch, that switch that happened from needing to, for lack of a better word, control everything to giving up control. Right. How did that occur for you? Or do you not know?
Liam Naden [00:15:36]:
Well, there's two answers. What actually happened and what really happened? Because I can say what happened, which is I stopped thinking about it.
Cody [00:15:46]:
But how did you stop thinking about it? That's my question. Right. To go from a person that spent so many years striving and creating to just be able to stop thinking about it, that seems like a large jump is what is my question.
Liam Naden [00:16:02]:
Yeah, well, I guess when you hit rock bottom and you've got no other option, you just. It's another way of doing. And I would never have done it unless I had got into this really desperate situation where nothing worked. So I tried everything I could think of, and I knew a lot of things that I could try. I'd read a lot of books on different techniques, on things you could try. But when you get to a point where it's not actually working and you've run out of ideas, and then you get honest with yourself and you say, look, I could carry on trying to do these things that I've been doing, but if I'm really honest, they're not working. When you get to that point of honesty, that's when you can say, well, like I did. And you get to that depth. You say, well, it's just. I'm just not going to try anymore. I give up. If you like. I mean, some people talk about letting go, you know, allowing and all those things, but you can only do that, really. There's a big difference between wanting to let go and actually letting go. Right?
Cody [00:16:59]:
Yes, that's what I was gonna say.
Liam Naden [00:17:01]:
Often it's when we're in this desperate situation that we just say, I have no alternative. There's nothing else I can do. I just give up. And God or whoever I like, maybe they can take over.
Cody [00:17:13]:
Yeah, that's really interesting. But I'm assuming. I mean, this fascinates me so much because I just was at a workshop. I really resonate with all the classes and the courses and the Workshops. Been there, you know, got the T shirt. And one of the things that this person was talking a lot about was what you're talking about, that you cannot force the release, the letting go. Like, it's something that has to happen on a level that we're not conscious of. Right. We cannot make our conscious mind do something that needs to happen in the unconscious. Right. Or the subconscious. So, yeah, it's just fascinating. But you know what I'm finding. What I find fascinating is you obviously didn't give up and go into a depression, because I'm assuming from that energy, probably nothing would have happened. Right. You just would have remained in this depressed state. So can you tell us a little bit about that? Like, how the. You know, Because I think a lot of people associate giving up with, like, all right, I give up. Where's my bag of chips? Where's my Netflix? Like, let's just be in that level, in that state of being, for sure. Yeah.
Liam Naden [00:18:13]:
Maybe what I could do to explain that is explain how this all works.
Cody [00:18:16]:
Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that.
Liam Naden [00:18:18]:
And what's really going on. But, you know, being a sailor, someone who sails all the time, I'm in a privileged position of being in nature all the time. You know, living on a boat and the sea is right there, the wind is right there, fish, there are birds all around me all of the time. And one of the things I started to notice about nature is. Or the natural world, which we've all forgotten, is that nothing really struggles to survive. In fact, everything is part of this universal harmony where everything just works. You look at a tree, it's not struggling, it just is being a tree. If you look at a bird, I love watching birds flying. If they want food, they just dive down and get some food. They're flying in the air. And what we don't realize or what we've forgotten is that all of nature is built on the principle, and it's developed this through millions of years of evolution, if you like. It's all built on the principle of least resistance and least effortless. In other words, efficiency of energy. Because all of nature is designed for one purpose, and that is to survive. And nature has found that the most efficient way to survive, for anything to survive, is for it to be its best and to use the minimum amount of energy and not waste energy to be its best, to give it the greatest chance of survival. So struggle is not actually very much a part of nature. And we've seen wildlife documentaries of the lion chasing the wildebeest but if you really dive deep into looking at nature, you see struggle is very rare. Struggle is unusual. Most animals or species or even ecosystems all live in this balance of harmony where there is no struggle. There is life and death, but there's no struggle. There are no problems. We see insects, we see flies, and they're not struggling to survive. And the really interesting thing about all of that is because the automatic reaction when I started looking at this thought, why are we different? Why are humans struggle? Why do we struggle? We must be different to the rest of nature because we've got these sophisticated brains, and life's a lot more complex for us. So therefore, that's why we struggle in our life. That's why we have problems, because we're different from the rest of nature. But when I looked into this a little bit more closely, and it's like everything we've been taught is not actually true if you actually study it and ask the right questions for more than about a minute. And what I discovered, if you go back through the history of humanity, you know, human beings were called Homo sapiens, as the species we've been around for about 300,000 years, and for 97% of that time, which was until about 10 or about 12,000 years ago, we actually live like the rest of nature. If you look at the fossil record, the anthropological record of how humans were, they were a lot healthier than we are today. They're actually up to 5 inches taller. Their brains were larger. They had strong bones. There was no such thing as bone disease or mouth tooth problems. Most of the diseases we have today didn't exist. We have this image that they would cavemen living these short, brutal lives. Their lifespan was longer than ours is today. There were all these things, and there's virtually no evidence that was any conflict. There was the odd little skirmish, but there were no battles, there were no wars. And what it seemed like is people were far happier. They were living much more in harmony with their environment. So we actually were like the rest of nature. We didn't have problems, we didn't struggle. And they were nomadic hunters who found food easily. They didn't have to, you know, there were no such thing as famines or starvation. It just didn't exist. This is what the evidence actually shows. So you have to say we are like the rest of nature. But what happened 12,000 years ago? Something happened, because something happened that suddenly sent us on a different path. And then after that, humanity suddenly changed. And we went from a life of being naturally thriving and healthy. We actually shrank. Our brains shrank. All these extra diseases started occurring. Wars, conflict, famine, disease. These all are very recent things in human history. So we have to say, well, why did that happen? Why did we suddenly give up a life where we were really happy and things were, you know, we were so healthy and we lived long and happy and healthy lives to suddenly living a life of struggle? Because we also went from an easy life to a life of hardship where we had to work a lot harder as well to survive. And it wasn't that the population increased because that happened much later. It wasn't that it was climate change. It wasn't any of these things. What it was was we changed the way we used our brain so that instead of living a natural life, we lived an unnatural life. And that's when all of the problems started. So what I didn't realize those years ago when I changed, I went from using the thriving, went from using the struggle part of my brain to using the more natural part of my brain, the part of the brain that's designed to make sure that we thrive. And the whole problem with society now is that we've created a way of using the brain that blocks us from doing that. So all we need to do, and it's quite simple, we just need to go back to using our brain the way it was designed. And that's what happened to me. And that's what happens for people who I help as well. Things change suddenly, you know, you're thriving again.
Cody [00:24:07]:
That's amazing. And it sounds so simple, but I'm assuming it's. I mean, maybe it's that I'm conditioned, that everything has to be hard, right? I think that that's a narrative. Like I really relate to that narrative and it' I've actually been thinking about a lot lately is this narrative. And I think it's a societal one, right? That of struggle and that things we need to work hard in order to be worthy or deserving, right? Like this. Yeah. This narrative, I guess, is the best word of, you know, we look at these people and it's like, oh, but they work so hard. And we sort of hold that up. And I grew up in New York City, right? And in New York City, this is really highlighted because, you know, I call it like the cult of busyness, right? You know, people are always like, oh, I'm so busy, I'm so stressed. And it's sort of like a badge of honor, you know, to be busy or stressed or, you know, not have enough time to eat or like all of these sort of hectic, rushing sort of things. So it's. It's really interesting, you know, that all of this is unraveled in nature because it's so antithetical to, like a city lifestyle. Right. But anyway, so, yeah, I just wanted to share that because I really do think that this is really exciting and interesting and makes a lot of sense. And I'm excited to hear about. More about this. You know, this act. You know, what the actual parts of the brain you're talking about are not from an anatomical perspective, but just sort of how that happens. And also, if there's a relation to the nervous system and to being in fight or flight or parasympathetic mode, is that sort of part of that or is this kind of a separate thing?
Liam Naden [00:25:47]:
Well, it's all related. Yeah, definitely. But the interesting thing, just as you say about, we've got this idea that, you know, we have to be busy and we have to work hard and we have to earn success. We have to deserve it. But nowhere, if you look through historical literature, that's not what we're told is the way to live at all. For instance, the Bible, which has a lot of spiritual teaching about how we're supposed to live, it says there, do not worry about what you shall eat, drink and wear. It'll all be provided for you, just like it is for the birds of the air and the creatures of the field. How much greater are you now? It doesn't say you have to earn. It doesn't say you have to work for it. It doesn't say anything like that. It says, it'll be provided for you. This is your natural state. And again, if you look at nature, nature doesn't struggle to find when its environment is balanced, it doesn't struggle to find food. If you look at a bird, if it wants food, it just finds food. There's a flock of birds in the field next to me, and they. I was watching them last night. They just all flew in and they just stopped and obviously were eating insects. And then they flew off again. They weren't fighting each other and they weren't saying, you know, I have to earn the right to find some food.
Cody [00:26:56]:
You didn't work hard enough today. Go away.
Liam Naden [00:26:59]:
But here's what happened 12,000 years ago, because we traded this life, and this is really, I think, at the heart of it, we traded this life of thriving naturally to real struggle. And it came down to one invention. And this is a bit of a shock when you think. But when you think about it, it's quite revelatory. What we invented, which we'd never had before, was language.
Cody [00:27:25]:
Wow, I was not expecting you to say that.
Liam Naden [00:27:27]:
No, but when you really think about it, what does language do? It does a couple of things. The first thing that it does, I mean, obviously it's good for communication and planning, if you like, but we use it in the wrong way. Here's why. Because what language does, it does two things. Firstly, it creates labels and stories. It changes the way we interact with our environment. Instead of relating directly with our environment, we tell a story about environment. So we say, instead of just looking at a tree, we say, that's a tree. So we create these labels and stories. That's the first thing which separates us from instinctive living. Because the way the brain is designed. The brain is designed to respond instinctively to whatever is in your environment, not to label it first and try and figure out what to do. This is where you mentioned the fight flight. That's the negative side. If there's a threat or danger that we know that we instinctively do something to protect ourselves. But the brain has that same instinct for doing the right things to make sure that we thrive, to make sure we make the right decisions, we take the right actions. That's an instinct as well. And it's the brain responding to the present environment. But the problem with stories, the problem with labels, not only does it separate you from the direct experience, but it creates something in the brain which doesn't exist, which is the future. So we suddenly start creating stories, not just about the present. We don't say, that's a tree. We say things like, I wonder what will happen in the future. If I don't have enough food, I might not have enough food in the future. I might not have enough money in the future. My relationship isn't going too well, so it might end up with problems in the future. So, and what happens on a brain level? Because remember, the brain is designed to respond to and deal with problems. And it does that. When we feel fear and anxiety, it's our brain saying, there's a threat, there's something you need to deal with. So the lion coming through the forest, your brain recognizes that as a threat, and you just react instinctively. But when you start creating stories, telling stories, you're creating all these imaginary problems. So what the brain is left with is it doesn't just respond to the problems that are in your life right now, which is what it's designed to do. It sees all these other problems because it doesn't distinguish between the present and this imaginary place called the future. So when we started telling stories, we started to see that there are all these potential problems and potential threats and dangers, not just what was happening in our life at the moment. And so instead of being instinctive and saying, well, I can get food whenever I want, like every other animal, it will just appear at the right time and will do the right thing, we started to think, what happens if I don't have enough food next year, next month? So we changed the way we interacted with food. And that's when we went from nomadic hunters, that's when we developed agriculture and we started to eat foods that weren't suited for us. And we started to work 12 hours a day, toiling away in the field, sacrificing our present for a future security that we said, we need to make sure that we're going to have enough food in the future. And then we created civilizations and towns and cities and said, well, we need to be in one place to make all this happen and we need security, we need to have walls up because somebody, we have another story, someone else is going to come along and take my food. And then we also created hierarchies. We needed a leader and of course language facilitated that. We needed someone to tell us what to do. You go and plant the field there today or tomorrow or this week and you go and do this and I'll do this. And that started to create conflict as well, that people were thinking another story, they've got more than I have and I might not have enough, so I need to kill that person or take what they have. So do you see the problem here is we're just, and this is what we're doing today, we're living through stories. Our brain is just going non stop and saying there are all these things that could happen, all these stories, and that's what we're living by. And it's keeping us in this permanent state of anxiety where we can't respond to what's real. We can't actually live instinctively and make sure that we do the right thing, or should I say, the right thing happens without us having to think about it. We don't do that. So the problem, the enemy is the stories. And my simple process, all I teach people, when you understand this, you just need to drop the story. You just need to say to yourself, I have a process for doing this, but this is, in essence, you just need to say, there's a story in my head, I drop it, drop it, drop the story. Don't replace it with another story. It doesn't matter what the story is. You know, some people, I used to think, oh, just think positive. If you're thinking a negative story, think a positive story. It's the story that's the problem. Because that's keeping your brain from living instinctively, which is what it was designed to do. Your brain is not designed to do this stuff. For 97% of history, it developed to make sure it was absolutely perfect at doing what it's at keeping you in a thriving state by doing one thing, by having you respond perfectly to what is in your immediate environment right now. So you just need to drop the story and realize that language, although it has a function, it's not the way you sort your life out. It's not going to solve your problems. I do a lot of marriage and relationship coaching and helping people. That's really how I got started in this and thinking, why is it people can be working on their marriage for 30 years in therapy and counseling and reading books and talking to each other endlessly and still not get anywhere still. And we probably, if anyone's been to counseling, you might have had that experience where you go in and you talk for an hour and you come out and you think, well, what did I actually say? What did we achieve? And it's because we're stuck in this idea that thinking is going to help us get to where we're supposed to be to thrive. It won't. The way you solve a problem is to just drop the story about the problem and the solution is going to present itself. That's what the brain is designed to do.
Cody [00:33:52]:
That's beautiful. I love that. And you have a process that you call rebalancing, right? Rebalancing the brain. And you have a four part model working with people. So I'm wondering if you could take us through just a little bit, because I'm sure there's people that are like, I want to work with this person. And they could go to your website. Right. But since they're listening to this podcast, maybe just take us a little bit as much as you're willing through what kind of coaching with you looks like?
Liam Naden [00:34:18]:
Well, it's essentially a combination of. Excuse me, a combination of helping you understand how you're designed. And really that's 80% of it. Because we've all had this experience where something in your life has happened and you go without you expecting it or without you trying to make it happen. I mean, a good example is the person that you meet and end up marrying. I mean, I've yet to meet a person who said, I had it all planned out that I was going to meet that person on that particular day. I had it on my goals list. I'd figured out exactly who they'd be, and I'd also figured out all of the. That we'd have this many children and we'd be doing this and we'd be living here. That's not how it happens. It happens in some other way. It happens in this instinctual way. So 80% of my job, I really feel, and that's why I love talking to people such as you and sharing the message is that it's really about getting it, that this is actually shifting to something that unfortunately people have badly tarnished as, you know, faith, letting go, allowing. Because again, if you look in old spiritual traditions, they all talk about the importance of faith, of belief, of trusting, of allowing. And we think this is some eerie fairy thing, that some God out there is going to look kindly on us or hope that God is going to look kindly on us and at a whim might give us what we want, rather than realizing it's a biological process. It's the way everything is designed. So most of my work is really trying to get people to just get it, if you like. And that takes a bit of understanding and explanation because everything I'm talking about, I've got a lot of. I can do a lot more explanation as to how this all logically and scientifically actually works. So eventually you get to the point where you get where you click. And it takes longer for some people than others. But when you finally get it, that's when you can let it work, because that's when you actually let go. You let go of the story, you let go of the control. Because even often people think, oh, yes, okay, I'll try it. But they're still telling a story that's like a safety net on the side. Just see if it works, but maybe it won't. You have to get to the place where, you know, logically, it's the only thing that can work. And when you get to that point, that's when the other 20% kicks in, which is when you start to notice your results. You start to do. You start to change your habits so that you facilitate this part of your brain that allows you to thrive instinctively rather than staying stuck in your story. So you need to develop some new habits. You need to undo the habits of a lifetime that we've all been absolutely ingrained like, you know, we have to work hard and we have to struggle and we have to do all these things. We have to figure it all out. We have to know where we're going. We have to, you know, plan everything. We have to undo all those habits, both physical and mental habits, so that we start to get results. And the great thing is when you start to get results, you go, how did that happen? You notice that your instinctive part is there are things happening beyond your control, if you like, but you're controlling your life in a different way. And that's when it all starts to snowball. And that's when, you know, I've seen such dramatic things in people, but very often, usually they're unexpected. They're not what people expect, you know, like me ending up on a yacht or traveling around the world. It's not. If someone had said to me, that's what you're going to be doing, I would have thought, that's crazy. So that's what it's all about. It's not about another technique. We've got bogged down in all these techniques and I tried all the techniques and really being honest, they don't work. They don't work consistently, if at all. Most goals people never achieve. Very, very few people achieve any goals. But everyone's running around saying, oh, yes, well, I'm working on my goals. We do that because it makes us feel a bit better. It makes us feel like we're going somewhere and we're in control. Because coming back to your point before, does that mean you just sit in a core and do nothing? No. Two things happen. One, you do the hardest work of all, which is start to understand yourself and how you should let go and just allow your instincts to guide you, not your stories. And the second thing you do as a result of that, you just become so much more productive. You actually do more. But you're not doing it with struggle. You're doing it through inspiration and you're not doing it through schedules. One of the things we've done as a society, we've created this idea you have to sit down at 9 in the morning and work till 5 and somehow produce some things. Well, what are most people doing that way? They're not really producing a lot. They're wasting a lot of time. Productivity comes at 10 o' clock on a Sunday night and when you get this amazing idea and you sit down and you write it all out and you start doing stuff. And again, when we were nomad hunters, we didn't have schedules, we followed food when we needed to, we instinctively knew what to do and we rested a lot of the time. And if you look at other hunters and nature, like lions, they sleep for 20 hours a day. Natural life is not about this constant grinding and constant pushing. But these are all different habits that come about when you start to understand who you are, live instinctively and then just allow it to happen with your. Obviously with your own input as well.
Cody [00:39:40]:
I love that. And I always just say what pops into my mind because that's who I am. So what about with parents?
Liam Naden [00:39:46]:
That.
Cody [00:39:46]:
So there's a lot of moms and some fathers that listen to this podcast. How does one specifically now I'm talking about this lack of schedule. Cause that is very. I have a lot of. I guilt myself often. Like one of the things on my to do list always is come up with a schedule for work. Right. Like so that on Mondays I do this and on Tuesdays I do this. Cause I listen to people talk about that and it sounds so enticing to me. Like everything's neat and everything's tidy but. But my natural energy is not really that. Like I just kind of don't work. It's not, doesn't come naturally to like create this. But I have a two year old daughter, so I can't, I certainly can't like rest for 12 hours a day and just create when I want to. Right. So I'm curious if you've worked with parents or if you have any thoughts around like how this works in a family setting.
Liam Naden [00:40:35]:
Well, everything you've just been saying, what is it? It's a story.
Cody [00:40:38]:
Yeah, totally.
Liam Naden [00:40:39]:
It's a story going on in your head which says if I don't do this, this is what's going to happen. If I don't have a schedule for my 2 year old daughter, this is what's going to happen. I need to do this. And I know what it's like as a parent. We have these stories. Oh, if I don't put in. We have this fear that they're not going to turn out as good a person as we want them to be. But here's the thing. When you actually drop the story, you drop the story of worrying about what's going to happen and worrying about whether you're doing the right thing. And this is where the understanding is important. Because if you know, this is the way you're designed, if you know your brain, this incredible machine, the most sophisticated machine that exists in the universe, that everyone who's studied it all is just so overwhelmed by its Incredible capacity and abilities. If you knew that's theory for one reason, to make sure you do the best things, you do the right things, and your life turns out amazing. That's its biological purpose. If you knew that, you'd want to figure out how to use it. And if you knew that the stories are what's blocking it from doing its job. And if you knew, another word is faith for God. If you knew God was going to make sure everything was perfect happening in your life, then you wouldn't worry about it, would you? You wouldn't be afraid because fear is what blocks it as well. Fear is another story. So it's, it's a tricky, tricky, if you like, because it's like it says in the film the Matrix, you know, I can show you the door, but you're the one who has to walk through it. But walking through that door, from wanting to keep some sort of control and making sure it's going to work out and having, in other words, stories to just saying, I trust myself totally. I, and I do. I'm not just saying it. I don't have it just written down as an affirmation. I trust myself. No, I genuinely do. And not being attached to any outcome at all. I mean, they talk about. That's another description for. Another word for that is enlightenment. There are spiritual practices and traditions that get you to spend a lifetime to achieve that one understanding that one cross the barrier, if you like, where you actually instinctive look, everything's going to turn out. All I need to do is just allow it to happen and not have any expectation. Because remember, the brain is designed to deal with the present moment. When you think, when you have thoughts, you project things other than the present moment. But for 97% of our history, we only dealt with reality. There is only one reality. The present moment is the only reality. There is no future, there is no past. And that's the way your brain is designed to make absolutely sure that the perfect thing happens in the present moment, in reality. Because that's what it does for the rest of nature as well. So it's about, you know, whenever you have a worry about, oh yeah, but if I do that, what's going to happen? It's a story. And you get to have and say, drop it. I drop the story. I don't need to know. Someone once said, I don't need to know. I'll figure it out as I go. That's the way it works.
Cody [00:43:45]:
I love that. Yeah, like I was mentioning, I took this workshop recently and it Was really wonderful. And one of the things that stuck out with me the most is that one of the sayings that this woman kept saying over and over again, which is, however this goes is okay for me. And there's something about that that's really helpful to me because I. The story that I have is that I'm kind of this, like, naturally anxious person. I don't believe I'm actually naturally anxious, but there is a lot of stress and anxiety in my brain. I am a thinker, right. And saying that, like, even around the smallest stuff, you know, it's become sort of a family mantra, if you will, is like, oh, we gotta get there early because we gotta get a good parking spot. That's my husband's things, right? Like, parking is. He could go deep into the worry about whether we're gonna park in the right place or not. And I just say, like, however this goes is okay for us. You know, and it's really. There's something in that that allows me to feel that. So I think this is super exciting. Liam, I'm so thankful that we've had this conversation. I have a few more questions, if that's okay. Yeah, and one of them is kind of a big question, because assume a lot of people, this becomes a ripple effect, right? Like, someone works with you, and then they. Soon you start teaching people how to do this, and then it just spreads, and everyone's doing this. And what's your vision of how this transforms how we live as a culture, as a society?
Liam Naden [00:45:05]:
Well, unfortunately, you've asked the wrong person, the wrong question. Me have a vision?
Cody [00:45:09]:
Oh, true, Right.
Liam Naden [00:45:11]:
A vision is a story.
Cody [00:45:12]:
Are you sure? Can you still dream? Can't you still hope? Can't you still have fun in fantasy land?
Liam Naden [00:45:17]:
You can do anything you like.
Cody [00:45:18]:
Yeah, but you don't do that, is what you're saying.
Liam Naden [00:45:21]:
I don't know. Sometimes, yeah. Yes, of course, I dream of, you know, exciting things that I'm going to do.
Cody [00:45:26]:
Right.
Liam Naden [00:45:26]:
But I'm not. I'm not attached to those stories. Well, I'm trying not to be attached to those stories. I'm not exactly perfect. I mean, we're all a thing in progress. But I'm not really attached to stories. I don't have any goals. I don't have any visions. Because even a month ago, what I'm doing now is different to what I was doing a month ago. You know, a year ago. Here's a really interesting exercise for people to try and just say, what were you doing a year ago? And what happened in that year that you didn't expect. And very often a lot of people unfortunately say, well, nothing happened. I've got a job and I got up. And then they look back over 10 years and they've never done anything different. And to me that's a tragedy. But if I look back over a year or a month, a year ago I had no clue that I'd be buying a brand new catamaran and sailing it from France to Italy. And I did that three months ago. And that's where I live now. It wasn't even in my head a year ago. And a complete lifestyle change. I was living in a motorhome at that time. So, you know, I don't have any visions about where this is going, what it's about, because I know my instinctive brain is going to take it wherever it's supposed to go.
Cody [00:46:36]:
Yeah, that's because the only thing that.
Liam Naden [00:46:37]:
Matters is right here, right now. I mean, you know, why not enjoy the present moment? Because the reality is you're never going to enjoy life unless you learn to appreciate the present moment. And everybody tells us this as well, but we don't do it because we have the story going on our head. I'll enjoy life when I achieve something, when I've got everything in control, when I've got this imaginary place called the future, when I've got it all under control, then I can be happy. So you get to. No matter what you've got in your life, you're still telling those stories and you're never happy. And isn't that the paradox of human society today? We've got more information, more solutions to every single problem we could possibly imagine. We've got more reasons to be happy, we've got more stuff, more opportunity, and yet there's never been more. Higher cases of disease, dysfunction, unhappiness, conflict. It's going the wrong direction because we're using the wrong mechanism. We're thinking. Thinking and thoughts and stories are going to be able to solve all our problems, but they're not. They actually create the problems.
Cody [00:47:45]:
That's awesome. Thank you for that. I have one final question. Well, two final questions for you. The first is, can you tell us a little? You said you work a lot with relationships, so can you tell us how this work? I'm curious how this work influences both relationships and also since I know my audience, health, like physical relationship.
Liam Naden [00:48:02]:
Okay, relationships. If you want to have a perfect relationship, you know what you need to do? Give up any stories about it. Because if you've Got any conflict? Not you, but anyone listening, really think about this. If there's any conflict in your relationship, what is that conflict? It's about things not being the way you think they should be, right? So you're having an argument with your husband or your wife and you're saying, well, they're not listening to me, and this is what they should do, and this is how they should behave. And if they did, then we'd have this wonderful relationship where we'd be sitting on the beach and, you know, looking in each other's eyes and we'd be feeling this certain way. That's all a story. That's all a story of expectation and it's all based on fear. But if you honestly said in your relationship, look, I don't mind where it goes, if it stays, if it doesn't. If you're in an unhealthy relationship or one that's, you know, you've got big problems, if you say to yourself, I'm not going to try and fix it, because trying to fix it is saying to yourself, I need to fix it for me to be happy. So if you give up all your fears and worries about your relationship and say, I'm just going to be myself, and whatever happens, everything's going to work out fine if that means I stay in this relationship or if it doesn't. Because the other thing that happens when you live instinctively is you start to take the right action without being afraid to take the right action. So you say what you think, you say what you mean, you do what you think, you do what you mean, and you don't have any guilt or worry about it, because you just do it. And if the other person isn't happy about you being yourself, even if you make a mistake, then you don't get attached to that either. So the whole secret to healing problems in a relationship is not to try and heal your relationship. And it's not to be attached to the relationship, not to be attached to anything. Another thing that comes through spiritual traditions, don't be attached to anything. Don't be attached to your relationship. Now, that doesn't mean just leave at the slightest hint of anything, but it does mean you're going to just release all of the pressure off the relationship, off yourself, and start to do the right things. And they're either the right things to heal it or to end it. But either way, you and everybody else end up where you're supposed to be. Rather than hanging onto the story of this, something has to happen. I need to Fix this. I need them to behave in a certain way for me not to be upset. They did something and it really upset me and they shouldn't have done it. All of those things are just stories that keep you completely stuck in your life.
Cody [00:50:34]:
Thank you.
Liam Naden [00:50:35]:
I hope I sort of explained it in a.
Cody [00:50:36]:
No, you did perfectly. And I'm assuming that this answer is going to be similar, but I think redundancy in this case on these kinds of conversations is actually really important because my guess is that one of the ways you start to actually believe this, like, on a deeper level, is by hearing it over and over again. So I'm going to ask almost a similar question, I promise. This is my second to last question. The last one's a very short question. Talk to me a little bit about how this influences physical and mental well being.
Liam Naden [00:51:09]:
Well, the scientific explanation for thriving, for being our best is called homeostasis. And every living thing is striving to achieve and maintain this level of homeostasis as optimum functioning. So for humans, that's physical. In other words, all the cells in our body thriving and doing what they're supposed to do, all the processes, but also mental and emotional. So here's the thing about health. Again, what I found was if you drop the stories and say, what do I need to do? You suddenly start doing the right things. But there's an interesting issue to do with health and we probably don't have time to talk about it. It's a personal experience of mine, which happened about 18 months ago, was everything was working well except my health. And I said to myself, I've been a vegan and vegetarian for about 30 years and my partner is. And we, we've given up gluten and we've. Getting into a bit of detail here, given up gluten, up sugar, and we don't eat this. We don't do alcohol and we don't do smoking. You know, we have these really healthy lives and we've got a stack of supplements that we're taking every day, but I'm still not. But my health is still going down. And I've got things like I got bad heart palpitations. I went to all sorts of doctors and cardiologists and people who just said, oh, that's age. And here, take some drugs and it'll settle it down. It's just normal, but don't worry about it. So. And then other things like I had surgery that, you know, I lost my gallbladder and I got pancreatitis and I just Wasn't feeling good. And I suddenly said, this is really one of the things that got me onto what we're talking about. I thought, is this really the way it's supposed to be? And what I discovered was that 97% of history, we actually ate different foods as well to what we do now. And I went back to an ancestral.
Cody [00:52:54]:
Diet, yeah, meat, which was one of.
Liam Naden [00:52:57]:
The most difficult things I've ever done.
Cody [00:52:58]:
I'm sure.
Liam Naden [00:53:00]:
All my health problems disappeared. My heartbeat came back to normal within a week. All of the chronic. I'd had chronic problems for 15 years, they all just went away. Not with any drugs, with nothing. And it got me thinking. We do have this natural intelligence that's designed, knows exactly how to make us perfect, to make us, not to give us problems. It'll do the work for us. It's like when you cut your finger, you don't worry about if it's going to heal or not. There's something magical that goes on, some intelligence that just goes to work and heals the cut on your finger. So that's what happened to me. And I realized that that was a major part of it. We were eating different foods and we were using our brain in a different way and we were living far, far better lives. So maybe there's something in that, maybe there's something to explore in that idea of doing what worked rather than seeing this massive decline that happened not just gradually, but instantly when we started to use our brain the wrong way, through language, create stories, live through stories which create an imaginary future. That's why we started to eat foods like grains and plants that are poisonous to us and made us sick. Because we couldn't plan so much for the future with animals, with meat. We had to, you know, so I don't know if that's. That levels in with anything you've experienced.
Cody [00:54:20]:
But no, I think this is so fascinating because there's definitely. I mean, I have so much to say about this and I'm conscious of your time, but I tread lightly in this area. There's something that's happening, there's a shift that's happening, right? Like that people are moving to a more animal based diet. And I don't, I think there's a lot to that. Right. But I really think that there's something there. And I am never one to recommend a diet. Former health coach, but does not recommend diets ever. But yeah, I do. I'm talking in circles really. But really I think for me, I look at that as like there's a Frequency shift in our environment. And I think it's. Everything we've been talking about is part of that. Right. Like we're all. And what I do is part of that. We're all trying to get better. It's like, here we go. Technology, and I'm not saying this is a bad thing, is pulling us further and further away from the natural world in a way. Right. And then at the same time, there's a natural intelligence that's counterbalancing that by making us, in all our different ways, connect back into the natural world. So that. I'm not saying technology is bad. I love technology so that we can have that balance, so that we can live. And I think that's the question I was trying to get at before when I was talking about your vision was just like, you know, I'm assuming that there's a way that this. The people can still live in the lives that they currently live in and practice what you're doing. So that was very roundabout. I know somebody understood what I was tangentially saying. But that it's become. There is this balance that's happening about us reconnecting back with the natural world.
Liam Naden [00:55:59]:
Well, if you think about AI, you know, a lot of people are fearful about what AI is going to do, but one thing that AI will do far better than us is think. It will out think us. It will tell better stories and come up with far more information. But that's not our strength. Our strength is being human. Our strength is natural intelligence, which is really what I'm talking about. Using this natural intelligence that goes through every living thing, because AI is not living. So we have this natural intelligence that we. That that is about. So I guess if I have a vision, it's about being human again, being more human, using that as our natural strength, our natural power, if you like. But the more we try and make our way out through life, the more stuck and the more struggles we have.
Cody [00:56:50]:
I love that. And I think that's such a beautiful. I took a course with a dear friend of mine around AI because I think it's awesome. And I really resonate with what you just said. Using that in the way that it's intended to do things that free us. That free us up. Right. Not to replace or whatever, free us from thinking. Yeah. I don't need to spend 20 minutes thinking about how to write a message that AI can write in 2 minutes or in less than 10, 5 seconds a second. Right? Yeah. So I do think that that's a really awesome way to Think about it. So, yeah, Liam, this has been such a beautiful conversation. I'm so exc. For everybody to hear it. Tell us, you know, I'm going to put everything in the show notes, guys, so don't, you know, don't stop driving if you're driving or cleaning the dishes if you are, but tell us the best way to connect with you. And also, I'm just curious. This is the question I ask everybody. What are you currently. I know maybe it's nothing, but what are you currently making space for in your life?
Liam Naden [00:57:53]:
Making space for? What do you mean? What am I working on?
Cody [00:57:56]:
No, just like what you're making space for. So for me, you know, for me, I'm. I'm making. Right now, I'm making space in my life for, you know, unraveling some stuff and, like, working through pretty much what we're talking about, but in my own way. Right. So. But yeah, I could be like, I'm making space for, I don't know, learning how to cook something. I don't know, whatever it is, whatever that comes to you.
Liam Naden [00:58:21]:
Well, you know, and without trying to sound flippant, I mean, I don't really make space or anything. I just allow. But it's amazing how much space shows up when you're not filling it with stories, when you're saying you have to do things. And it doesn't mean I'm not doing anything. I am actually writing a book at the moment about everything we've been talking about.
Cody [00:58:40]:
Amazing.
Liam Naden [00:58:41]:
But I don't even know if I'm going to finish it or I don't sit down and plan a schedule of writing it. And the incredible thing I found with that is it's amazing the information that's coming out of my head when I do that, when I don't treat it as a project, when I just say when I'm inspired to write, that's when it will happen. And whatever I'm inspired to do in the moment, that's what's going to shape my life. So I don't need to make space for anything, but just, you know, things keep showing up. I mean, obviously I've got a little bit of planning, but that's the other thing I've learned about living on a yacht. You have to. Nature rules. You know, I can say I'm going to sail to that island tomorrow, but then the weather changes. It depends on the weather. And you might have to change direction. You might have to change, not go at all. In other words, you have to respond to the present. Moment to the present conditions. But it's a different way to live. It's a different way to think about life, but it's the way we're designed. And that's when all the joy comes because you don't put all this pressure on yourself all the time. From stories that just keep you stuck, that don't get you to where you want to go. You might achieve some things. You might say, well, look at all the to do lists that I've ticked off. But you're not really making any progress to where you want to be, which is to have that feeling that you are being your best.
Cody [00:59:59]:
Thank you so much. And in the present moment, my 2 year old is outside of this door screaming for me. So in a way, this is the perfect ending because the present moment is calling me into it. But Liam, thank you so much. We'll say goodbye privately and tell everybody how, like the best way to connect with you.
Liam Naden [01:00:18]:
Or just go to my website, Liamnaden.com and if you'd like to send me an email. Liam, liamnadenmail. If anyone's got any comments, questions or just, you know, any response to this, I'd be happy to respond. Love to hear from people.
Cody [01:00:32]:
Thank you so much. I'll put all that in the show notes, guys, and so it'll be very easy to connect and Liam will say goodbye in a minute. Thanks everybody. I don't know about you guys, but that conversation really had me thinking and trying not to think and understanding all these stories that I'm running constantly. It's really an interesting perspective. So thank you so much, Liam, and thank you so much to you for listening and still being here. I appreciate it. Let's chat. Let's chat. All the things. Let's chat. Feng shui. Let's chat. This season. Let's chat. I am gearing up now for something I'm calling the Secret Life of Clutter. After having several conversations with amazing women who divulged to me that clutter is a real issue in their homes, I realized that that's probably true for more people than I know about. And it's definitely something that I have a history with and that I understand. And so I decided to host a free workshop. It's called the Secret Life of Clutter. And it's going to be on December 4, 2025 at 12:00pm you can find the link for that down below in the show notes and it's free. And we're gonna go deep into all things clutter, the psychology of it, what it Means from a feng shui perspective, depending on where it's living in your home and why it might be protecting you, what we can do to actually rewire that pattern versus just declutter in a weekend and then for sure watch it all accumulate back in days, weeks, months, years. Which is not what I'm here for. I'm here for real lasting change. So yeah, meet me there. It's going to be really interesting. It's going to be very informative, it's going to be fun and you know, let's do it. What else? Oh, I would love it, you guys, if you could please leave a review for this podcast. If you've enjoyed this podcast, if you've enjoyed this conversation, if you've enjoyed another conversation. It really helps me reach more people, continue to go. And honestly, it just means a lot these days to have that social proof. It's everything. So if you could take a minute and write a really short review, I would deeply appreciate it. So I'm gonna leave it at that for today. I hope you guys are enjoying this beautiful season. I have a couple things out and about in the world right now. Like I just talked to you about the Clutter Secret Life of Clutter Free event. You can still catch the replay for my fall event, my fall feng shui event. That'll be down below. You can purchase my Clean living guide. Yes. So many of you have been texting me, asking me what do you use for this, what have you for that? And while I love answering those texts, I thought maybe I should just put this into something. So I've got a really cool guide for you. It goes into all the major areas of the home. Also food and supplements, my favorites, things that I've tried and tested in my own life, in my own family. And I've got some discount codes in there as well. So it's $11. The link is down below. It's a great thing to grab now because if you're listening to this in somewhat around the same time because that I'm saying this because Black Friday is alive and well and there's a lot of discounts and also it's helpful to know like, hey, maybe there's some cool gifts in here. So I've got that and I have my calendar still open for a few more one on one consultations. If you want to book a free call to chat about the possibility. That link is also down below. Anyway, I hope you're having a beautiful week, getting excited for Thanksgiving here in the US And I will talk to you soon. Bye, Sa.