What happens when you cross continents, sip tea in the early light, and learn to follow the pulse of joy? This week, I invited Danielle Brooker—a joy activation coach, wise mama, writer, and podcast host—into the space. Danielle lives in Sydney, Australia (currently somewhere between summer dreams and cozy autumn mornings), where she helps big-hearted, exhausted mamas shake off the tired loop and call their energy back home. Together, we talk about making space for what matters—even when life is a little wild and your family is scattered to the winds. Danielle shares how joy isn’t something we sprinkle on top; it’s the secret ingredient at the core of thriving, and it’s a practice for every day. She offers up fresh stories from her own journey—across countries, into motherhood, and through seasons of change. If you’ve ever wondered what it looks like to design a life that fits your heart (even if it’s messy… especially if it’s messy), this one's for you. Come for vibrant Sydney energy, stay for tea, incense, and a reminder that our greatest abundance begins when we simply create the space. Pour yourself something warm, press play, and let’s find joy—together.
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Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Create the Space. I have an amazing guest today. She is all the way. Well, I don't know where you're listening from, so very far away from me in Australia, but her name is Danielle Brooker. She is a joy activation coach, a mother, a writer, a podcaster herself, and she gives exhausted, big hearted mamas a break, which, come on, we all need that, right? She guides ambitious, busy, and always on mamas and those in mothering roles to get out of their tired loop, tap into an endless energy supply and create lasting joy. This conversation was so fun and just so joyful. So I really am excited to share it with you. Danielle has a really amazing past. I will let her get into that. In the conversation, Danielle believes that joy isn't just a nice thing to have, it's a necessity, one that requires a daily practice. So in this conversation we really talk about that. We talk about Danielle's past, we talk about what joy is and so much more. So I'm so excited you to hear this conversation. Let's give a really warm welcome from wherever you are to our amazing guest, Danielle. Hi, Danielle. Hi, Kody. Excited to be here? Yeah. Thank you so much for making the space to be here today. I'm really grateful and excited to have this conversation and yeah, so let's go. Let's talk about all the things. First of all, tell us, I know where you are, but they don't know where you are. So tell us where you're coming, coming to us from. I'll give you a little snapshot into my space right now. So I am based in Sydney, Australia. So at time of recording, it's kind of first thing of the day. It's a time that works really well for our family in terms of me having these lovely little cozy, close my door chats. And I, yeah, I've had a couple of moments to make a cup of tea, lots of incense. Sometimes I smoke myself out in this office. So if you see me like waving around or hear some sounds like that, that's why, because of like windows and flows and everything. So, yeah, that's a little snapshot as to where I am. And it's summer right in Sydney now, or is it winding down? So it's so interesting. At time of recording, literally yesterday I woke up and I was like, oh, hello, Autumn. Like there was that freshness in the air, like at this hour. I mean, in an hour or two it'll get back up to like stinking hot summer day. But like, I have noticed the change. I pulled out my cozy dressing gown last night. I'm like, I love the off seasons. Like I just love that slight release. It feels like sometimes like the extreme seasons can be on for a little too long and then it's like just this little valve, this pressure, like yes. It's so good. That's true. I was in Sydney, Australia once, a really long time ago, like over a decade ago, back in my circus performing days. And the circus love of my life is there. Yeah. So I have a fond spot for Sydney for sure. I don't remember like too much about it, but it was really a beautiful time. So yeah, I'm excited to be talking to you all the way in Australia. Yeah, I'll send you some Sydney circus vibes then. Definitely shout out Lil if you're listening. Anyway, we could talk about the circus because circus in Australia is an amazing topic. However, let's talk about you. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your family if you feel compelled and what you do in this world and we'll talk about how you got there shortly. Sure. So I have a three year old and so it's the three of us in Sydney. We, we don't have like our blood family is not in Sydney with they kind of spread out all over Australia, which for us is really juicy because it means we do like lots of little side trips or have visitors coming frequently. My partner and I, before our daughter arrived, spent almost a decade in the UK and so that's very much our second home. And we made the decision to move, move back, birth my daughter here. And so it's been, been a wild three years, I'm not gonna lie. But it's also being like this kind of beautiful dance of magic, messiness and then some hard stuff and then some beautiful stuff. And I guess I'm in this phase of like really understanding the intricacies of all of that and how to feel everything is to also open yourself up to some of the deep grief as well. I'm a coffee snob, so Australia really is the best place in the world. When I travel, it's like one of my favorite things to do. My partner and I like, we seek out these obscure, amazing like unique coffee shops in like random locations. I remember specifically where we were in Vietnam. We were in Hanoi and like we just found literally this little like drop of Paris in the middle of Hanoi. I know Hanoi has some, some Parisian kind of influences, but like this random little place, you walk up this tiny staircase, it had all these like post it notes of love. Like people would write little love notes, stick them up and like you're literally in this little like attic. But you were sipping the most amazing coffee in a place where you wouldn't be expected to be drinking like condense potions of coffee kind of thing. So that's a little like flavor of, you know, my joy as well, I guess. Yeah, that's wonderful. I love that I have a similar, like, I think it's so fun when you're traveling to have something like, to have something like that. Right. Like I remember when I was younger I went to Europe and I became obsessed with looking for old harmonicas at flea markets. Like it was just this random thing. And it's fun though. It gives it, gives it a different, you know, like a flavor like you said, of finding something. So I love that you shared that. That's wonderful. And I was just thinking about the coffee shop near our town. That's pretty cute. So hopefully one day I'll come visit and this is a bit of a aside, but not really actually. So tell me a little bit about your life before you're doing what you're doing now and then sort of what that was like and how you ended up where you are. So I used to be an economist. So I'm an economist slash statistician turned joy coach, which on the surface makes no sense whatsoever. But actually when I trace it all back and I connect the dots to me, it makes perfect sense. So I was very much a high achiever. Wanted to do all the things, participate in all the extracurricular activities, really just had my focus on doing the best and all. I knew that that equ is do your best at every possible subject and just keep going. You know, go get the university degree, go get the next best job. And I always had this influence of wanting to travel. So I was constantly just weaving in how can I, you know, how can I do my next trip, my next adventure, you know, part time jobs? And I, I guess, you know, specific big career job was working in government policy where I met my partner not at my specific workplace, but during that era and worked in government policy for years. And also. So that was really showcasing my like working as an economist, I guess in different ways. And I not ready. I loved it. I loved the people. I just felt so, you know, empowered. And I also ridiculously burnt myself out. And it kind of started peeling back the layers. It was this piece of. Well, yeah, I did love what I did, but it was also a mask. I had learned so well to do this thing so well that a lot of it was me just holding, holding that mask of confidence on. And when I started to peel it back it was really this piece of I actually beneath the surface always felt uncomfortable, always felt like I someone was going to find me out. Like I didn't know what I was doing and it really cracked me open. And it was during that period where there was this peace where I just had this dream to live in London. I kept saying one day, one day, one day. And it was just like this moment I was like that's it, I'm going, I'm going right now. Like there's if not now I just know it's not going to happen. And so that, that then my partner and I we London. He's very risk, he was very risk averse credit and he's like okay, well he was thinking we might go for a year. In my head I'm like I'm going and I don't want any time attached. And we ended up there for almost a decade. So during that time it was this real, you know, washing machine I guess and there had been some seeds planted along the way. I've always loved personal development. You know, put me in a self help workshop room and I am just on fire. I'm like fuzzy, I'm walking. Happy magic. And like that was, that was my favorite place to be And I've had a couple of experiences in Australia that have plante since theme but I'd never seen that as something I was allowed to do or something I could do. I just thought that was my fun hobby on the side and it was. Yeah. During our experience in London I actually I was working in policy roles. I'd moved more into the charity sector, health policy, those sorts of things. And I signed up to an accredit, a coaching accreditation in Australia of course because that's what you do. You moved to the UK so that you can do the training in Australia and would, would fly back for their like face to face components. And I just started doing this coaching thing on this on the side like just for fun. And I was in the room for a face to face training that I just thought you know, I'm just doing this because you know I'm doing the right thing. This is what you do, you know, the certificate or what have you. And I walked out of that weekend going pretty much like oh, oh like I have a business now. Like there was literally like a line is that I was like oh like this is it, this is my life now. There is no turning back. So to condense the journey, there was a lot of, like, transitioning and figuring it all out and like working with lots of different people and all of the things. But that was, that was the pathway. And to link that whole, like, economist and joy coach piece, I feel like as an economist, it. It's really about taking a step back and looking at the bigger perspective, really trying to see how all of these moving parts can fit together seamlessly and like, make them align really beautifully, taking in all the information. And my, My magic as a coach is that I do that piece. And I'm exceptionally intuitive, so it's like I get to bring the gifts of intuition with this beautiful, strategic piece of actually seeing how people can fit, can fit these pieces together, where the gaps are, where the blocks are, and also where the bounty is, like where these beautiful expressions of themselves exist that they may not be seeing. So I feel like in some weird way, that was always the pathway I was meant to take. Even though it sounds a little odd. On the surface, as the best pathways do. Exactly. There's the circus girl turned whatever. I love it. Yeah. So. Oh, that's so wonderful. Thank you for sharing all that. And it's interesting that it pulled you back home too. Right. So that's a really interesting piece to me. But I want to talk about Joy because I think we're going to talk mostly about joy. I mean, we're going to talk about a lot of things, as we always do. They know. I ramble. You guys know. Because I've been thinking a lot about it. I knew I was talking to you, right. And. And I was like, well, I'm a little uncomfortable with the word joy, to be honest. Like, if I'm really honest with myself, right. Like, I kind of think like joy, like maybe I'll put it on a vision board. But do I actually know what that means? Like, do I really know what is joy and why is it important? So I don't know if there's a question in there. I think it's just like, let's open the conversation to sort of what you have to say about this as this is your field. Yeah. And so my messaging, my mission piece is all around supporting mothers as well. So even mama Joy, that that title, that expression can feel quite obstructive. Feel like your face, recognize that. And I honor that because I am a mama in the thick of it. And we have really had some think of it moments in the last three end of it years. And that's not to kind of turn people away, but to open up a new conversation around joy. I think we are so the busyness of our life, whether, whether that is through parenthood, mothering or career or just life. Like we have so many things going on, right? Filling all these pieces of ourselves together. We can kind of and see things that are away from our immediate experience. And it can feel almost like an attack because we're not there yet. And it like brings up this kind of almost self doubting part of us. Like we're not there yet. So just like get that away from me almost. Because on the inside we're kind of, we're kind of craving it. I have this question that I ask in, in some of my workshops and coaching sessions, which is really to help you kind of pull out what some of those desires are. What are those things that really matter to you? What does bring you joy essentially? And it's this piece around, what are your hot buttons? Like, what are the things that really fire you up and aggravate you? And you know, once again, that can sound like, okay, well why are we talking about that in a conversation about joy? But they are, they are like massive clues, massive messages for us. Because if I'm getting fired up about, wow, I don't know now, I, I would often get fired up about like, if someone, this is obscure, but hang in here with me and it'll all come back. I would get fired up about someone not like I'd be hanging out with one of my best friends and then we would like go meet another person and they would like show up differently and they'd be like, talk differently or like laugh funny. And I'd walk away being like, I feel irritated and annoyed. I'm like, what, what was that? Like, I'm so annoyed. I like wanted to like get mad at them for some reason. And I, for me, that friction started to show up really as understanding that like this piece around authenticity and people being, treating themselves was so important. I mean, it's, it's, it's part of, part of the work that I do. And so it was just kind of noticing those, those irritations. If someone's talking to you about how happy they are and they just bought, you know, a house by the beach. If you're feeling irritated by that, is that because you really dislike this person and you're annoyed that they're doing great and you know, having fun or whatever? Or is it because there's a part of you that's actually desiring that or had desired it or maybe doesn't know what they desire and therefore that's the conflict. So that was, I mean that was a little bit of a weird way to kind of open a conversation about joy. But these are all the things that go on in my head. I love it, I love it. I'm with you completely. Great. So I guess one of the main pieces that I think of with joy because you sort of said, well, like what even is it? Yeah, that's my question. Yeah, yeah. What is this joy thing? For me, I just want to separate joy and happiness. Like to me, I feel like they're completely different experiences. The joy piece that I work with is I think joy, I think fittest, somatic or embodied joy. It's really this deepest expression of like when the feeling is inside your body. It's an all over expression. It's how you show up in the world. It's how maybe your, your thoughts start processing differently, your behaviors start even like literally your movements are different when you embody enjoy it. Happiness, whilst lovely. To me, just for the purpose of this conversation, I'm going to separate that out as more like these fleeting expressions. Almost like this wave of giddiness or like of course I'm happy having this conversation and like, well, of course I'm happy drinking that incredible flat white coffee, you know, but there's, there's a different layering to it. It's almost experiential instead of embodied. If, if I, if I can kind of draw that distinction. And obviously this is, you know, these are fine lines and it's a bit of gray mixed in here. To me, this piece around joy is actually when we are feeling stuck, when we are feeling stagnant. I know that, you know, I'm. Well, I'm imagining you talk a bit about these energies as well. Getting really stuck and stuck. Stagnant. Right. And needing a bit of a freshen or a clearance. To me, the stuckness and the stagnancy is often if not always related back to our joy. Are we, are we in our fullest expression of joy? Are we, are we following, following the inner messages? Are we expressing our desires? Are we, you know, even having our needs met can be, can be connected back to joy. Yeah. Oh, this is so good. I just feel like all of the conversations I've been having lately have really been sort of circling a theme. Theme that I'm seeing, which is that a lot of the conditioning, at least here in the US I'm just. Or forget the US at least in my world, I'm not going to Speak for the entire United States right now. That's crazy. At least in my world. A lot of the conditioning that I received, which I really feel many received, is that these things are frivolous, right? Joy, pleasure, they're cute, we could have those. And I think what's unearthing in these conversations, and I don't say, I'm not saying I believed that, I'm just saying that that's like deep conditioning, right? What's unearthing in these conversations is actually that's not really true. You know, a lot of these things I would put beauty in there too. I actually think beauty is another word that like sort of gets a raw deal, you know, in terms of like what it really is. I'm gonna take a small tangent here for a minute. One of my favorite mentors, I guess, even though I've only met them once, but mentors in the space of life is Dr. Zach Bush. I'm not sure if you know Dr. Zach Bush, and I once heard him say like someone asked him some really deep question and his answer was beauty. Like look for beauty. Because as a human being, like that's something that can connect us to our deepest self, is just appreciating and seeing all the beauty that is in the world. And I kind of am sort of feeling the same way as I'm hearing you talking about joy. It's like, it's not that it's this like fluff, fluffy, light, happy, rainbow experience. It's like something that can help connect us to our essence. I, I thousand percent. I'm on board with what you just shared. And there's this piece for me, like I know personally, beauty aesthetics are really important and I'll, I'll share a bit of a common, common example like in a day to day, because I, I have thought a lot around this concept of breaking up with busy and the patterning of busy inside of us as well get, you know, so that's really just a pattern. So when I think about beauty, I think about this example of, you know, fullness of life, lots of things going on, you know, partner and working. We've got a little person, we've got a, a fairly small space for the amount of, and just, you know, chaotic, messy. And I'm walking through and I'm feeling more stuck and stagnant throughout my day. More heavy energy, more just frustration. And I'm going like, what's going on now? Sometimes there's a choice that it's like I need to just tidy up and clear the space. And reset, because I need to feel light and I need to tune into that beauty. And sometimes that is a distraction, but I can tell the difference in my body. So sometimes it's like, oh, no, I just need to do that. And I'm getting all stressed about it, and then I'm clearing, but it's still not feeling any good. But then other times it's like, no, actually, I need a reset, and I need to focus on the beauty. And the way that I kind of navigate that is, I guess, like a technique I'm thinking of it now is that I try and zone. Zone things off. Like, if I'm feeling that frustration, like, okay, let's just. Let's just go sit on the deck. Let's close the front door and not think about all of that. And like, let's. Let's create some beauty. Let's. I have this picnic blanket. Sounds insane, but it's like the most beautiful picnic blanket that I invested in for myself after I ran one of my first workshops when we moved back to Australia. And I was like, yes, it's back. You know, and so I sit down on my beautiful, you know, beautiful blanket, have my favorite teacup. Like, those. Those moments really matter to me personally. I don't know that we all need the beauty. Like, I think that's. That's an aspect of us, but it's. It's so critical, and I think it's important to pay attention to if that matters for you and the resonance in your body and what changes and let alone all of the signs. I'm sure. I mean, I can't speak to beauty specifically, but I'm sure if Zach Bush had touched on it, there is definitely some science behind it as well. There's a ton of science on joy and pleasure and all of the mind, body benefits, you know, the physical benefits we get, how it supports your nervous system. Like, you just. Once you start looking into it, it just goes on and on and on. To the extent. Oh, yeah, like, that's just accepted now, I realize actually that's my world, and it's important to bring it out into the light. But there is. There's just so many reasons for us to focus on it. So the question then always becomes to me is like, well, why are we not? What is stopping us if it's so important? Like. Like you said with, like, beauty, if it's so important to us, why do we just, like, shrug it off and think, oh, you know, we don't need it, or that's frivolous. Yeah, so true. I have a question. I'm going to take a slight turn. So in the people that you work with, how, how you know someone. I feel like there's people listening that are like, okay, so what do I do here? How do I get in touch with what joy is to me? So let, I want to get a little practical for a minute. What are some strategies or ways that people can start to understand if they need more joy in their life or if they are living a joyful life or what joy is to them? Because I'm assuming it's also somewhat personal. Oh My God, absolutely, 1,000%. I want to give it, give a small framework first and then I'll give some like really mini small strategies, tips, techniques, you know, things like that just to kind of help you tune into your own experience of joy. So the framework I just want to share is just a little opener and there's a lot to this, but I just, I just want to tease it for you just to insert this new way of thinking. I think a lot about our expression of needs. If you ever, you know, if you've ever seen anything like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, things like, you know, things like that, where we talk about we, we need safety, we need shelter, you know, all this element of comfort and certainty and stability. We also need, on the flip side, uncertainty. We need a sense of variety and spontaneity in our lives. Other, otherwise things get a little bit boring. But the layer beneath all of those needs is actually this process of like how we meet those needs. Because I once had a mentor or teacher that spoke about this in such a beautiful way that it was kind of like if you're not meeting. Okay, this is a nice example with, with certainty and uncertainty, it seems like they're at odds to each other, but deep, subconsciously. If you just know as your base point that you are going to be meeting these needs regardless of whether you're aware of them or not, then that really helps you understand what's what. What then kind of gets portrayed in your life because if you've ever had this moment where things are like going swimmingly well with your partner or significant other or even just like your closest best friend, you know, insert close person in your life and everything's really great for a great time and then suddenly you find yourself nitpicking about something and you're in this fully blown fight about, I don't know, bruises on apples or like literally spilt milk on the floor and you're like, why is this, like, suddenly the worst fight of my entire life. So why does that happen? And what's happening subconsciously is that when things are going swimmingly, that's meeting our need for comfort, that's meeting our need for safety and certainty. But there's this threshold point where we're essentially going, okay, well, now there's this tipping point where safety and certainty can actually get a bit boring. That's the unresourceful side of it. It's like, this is boring. We need to spice things up. So subconsciously you're going, let's get some variety into the mix. Let's. Let's kick things up a bit. And if we're not mindful of what our pattern patterns are doing or our behavioral kind of trigger points are there, we can, we can go into an unresourceable pattern and pick a fight instead of, say, going, oh, things are going really swimmingly and I'm really comfortable and I love our evening, but different TV show, or why don't we instead tonight of not sitting on the couch, let's sit on the floor, or let's go for a walk. You know, like, we can insert micro changes to just kind of keep that, that beautiful harmony going. So I'm inserting this concept of needs of certainty, uncertainty, because the misnomer or the myth around joy is that it's really lovely and safe and comfortable. And like, that feels incredible. And so therefore, it must be one, it must be a certainty need. And it's not the piece around joy is that joy. If you kind of take a moment literally right now and just kind of imagine the last time that you felt joy. Just like trust whatever comes up. It could have been like yesterday for bot or like 5 years ago on the beach, on holiday. Trust that, like, we're doing this in a micro moment. There's a. There's a shift in your body, in your energy. And I would imagine that the way I'm going to describe it is like, it's a little bit buzzy or a little bit dancing. Like, there might be some calmness to it, but there's, there's. There's a buzz to it. And maybe even asking you to do that right now, particularly as we just did it quickly in the middle of a conversation. Listeners, I'm imagining some of you might have been a bit like, oh, what? You know, like there's this, like, resistance that immediately comes up in our bodies because joy is actually, I would put it in this needs framework as meeting a need for uncertainty, for variety. There's lots of different words for this, you know, uncertainty, variety, you know, even spontaneity, things like that. And that's a big piece of why we avoided because it's actually pretty unknown. And even for joy that we love, like my having that coffee, you know, knowing that I'm going to enjoy that experience, I have a little bit of a ritual. I intend to always take my journal and sometimes I write in it, sometimes I just hold it. But the point is that there's still a level of like unknowingness and particularly if you're someone who keeps pushing joy aside, thinking it's frivolous or not, you know, not right now, not a priority. Or I actually think like the other extreme is not even thinking about it because it's so subconscious that we don't prioritize it. What happens is it becomes more and more uncertain because it becomes less and less safe for our bodies to feel it because it's a new feeling. Like it's as simple as that. There's no kind of, you know, sinister thing going on here. It's just as simple as our bodies are wired to keep us feeling safe. So that's the framework. Is that clear? I mean, I could obviously talk for hours on that. Super, super, super, super clear. Yeah. And you know, I'm harking back and I want to get to your tips and strategies, but I'm harking back to. I don't even know who gave me this exercise. It might have been like a former therapist was, gave me an exercise to like make time every day for three things that I enjoy just because. Or fun. I remember the word fun. It was when I was trying to conceive my daughter. Now I'm. And you know, it was a hard road for us and, and some well meaning person was like, make time every day to do something fun just for yourself. And it was so challenging for me. I was like, I want to throw this advice at the wall because what the heck is fun? Like I'm. What, you know, like so it's just so fascinating to me that this stuff for some people is really not that simple. Like it's not, it's. It's challenging, you know, and I have a lot to say, but I want to hear your strategies first and then I'll launch into some other things. With my daughter as well. And she, she loves her milk, so she's a very milky baby, which meant there weren't many gaps where I could leave her and I would be in these most depleted, you Know, deep fatigue moments. And I would get comments like, oh, well, have you just go to a yoga class, Maybe you need to just take yourself out. I'm. I, like, I. That's stressful. I can't. Like, I know that used to bring me joy. And there's a level of safety and comfort in returning to a yoga class, for example. But actually right now there's so much uncertainty around that. Even though there's a part of it that might bring it. Bring it to me, actually. Yeah, the movement through. It's not going to work. So I really want to acknowledge that and I guess kind of just acknowledge that there's a difference between resistance and when something is no longer working for you like this joy has to move with you in each season of life as well. And I think this is what we. I mean, as much I'm going to give you a little tool in a moment and as much. But as much as we feel like, oh, well, I used to feel great doing that, therefore I'll keep doing it, we need to acknowledge that sometimes we need to let go of some of those things or do them in a different way, for example. Yeah, yeah. There are some clues that they can give us, but the way which they show up could be very different. So let me give you a practical tool. I guess this is an exercise that you could take like a juicy amount of time with it, or you could do it in three minutes, it really doesn't matter. But it's simply asking yourself this question of, like, what were some of the things that I loved to do as a kid? Do you want to share something, Cody? Because you're sure. What did I love? I really. Oh, yeah, I really liked to draw as a kid. Like doodle. Not like perfectly, but doodling. Yeah, Yeah, I love that. So it's not just about kind of writing our list of like, yeah, I like to draw. I like to bake. I like to go and bake. Bake rides. Bake rides. They sound really fun. I want to go on a bake ride. Yeah, it's. It's taking it to the next level and feeling. Everything I do is about feeling first. So, like, feeling into. What was it about drawing that you liked? Do you want to answer about putting you on the spot? Yeah, yeah. No, you're not putting me on the spot. Sorry, I was just like, really in that. And I just want to highlight something you said, and I'm going to answer your question. I just want to highlight this for everybody. We don't have to go back to it. But just, like, write this down, people. Joy has to move with you. I just think that's so powerful. And so, like, if you get nothing else from listening to this conversation, which is impossible, but just take that with you. So, anyway. Okay, so what came up for me immediately was like, I really. What brings me joy from that was, like, the coziness. Like, I have this memory of being in kindergarten. It's so specific. I was in kindergarten. I was in my little classroom. I was looking out the window, it was raining, and I was sitting there with, like, whatever coloring tools I had and just coloring. And I remember the feeling, like, I just remember feeling so cozy and so, like. Yeah, cozy is the word. And I think that that is a thread for me. Coziness. Yes, absolutely. And I love that that came so quickly to you. And I just want to acknowledge any idea. That's fine. Like, just sit with it. It's okay. It'll come. Like, ask it another time. Give yourself some space to breathe into it. So the example that came to mind for me is I used to love bike riding. And I'd be like, well, what. What is it about, like, you script bike rides with my cousin and, like, friends in the neighborhood and by myself, and we would pack a picnic, and we would have this level of, like, independence. We would just go for hours. I mean, there was no mobile phones back then, let alone, like, I doubt I had any coins for the public pay phone. Like, we just left the house, you know, I loved. I'm thinking of it now. Wow. It feels so freeing. But it was. It was that feeling of freedom, of independence and adventure. And when I pull on those threads now, I think, okay, well, for me, that's an expression of joy. I feel at my most joyful when I'm in an expression of. An emotional expression of something that really matters to me. And this, you know, this does link to, I guess, if you've ever done any work around values. Values to me are in their most simplest form, the emotional state that I want to experience as often as possible. Yeah. And so I just. I love that questioning kind of tool to just ask it, maybe journal on a note, but actually close your eyes and sit in the emotion of it. Yeah. Just, you know, when Cody said cozy, I was like, yeah, that sounds great, too. And then. And then you can start to ask, okay, well, what does adventure look like now in this season? Because adventures my partner and I before came along, and based on the geographical location we were living in, adventure did look like weekends in Italy. You know, and sometimes that's frustrating when I ask myself that question now and I'm like, oh, let's go on an adventure. I want to go to Italy. That's not really logistically, like, you know, like, that's not okay. So how do I create the feeling of what it was about the weekends in Italy in our day to day life, like, and literally as, as maybe. Well, I don't know how this comes across, but I'll say anyhow, sometimes for me that literally is finding a new playground on the weekend because I can insert that level adventure and freedom in making that choice. And I think these are all just pathways to accessing the feelings in our body. Sometimes we can get caught on like, I think when we go into happiness, we get caught on making like happy lists. I mean, in saying. So I think a feel good list, which is what I kind of associate with joy a little bit more, is really important. But there's a distinction between making it like a tick, the box of activities versus how do I fully embody this feeling? Yeah. And this is bringing me to something I've been thinking about in my life a lot lately since having a child, which is that I didn't realize how. I'm not going to use the word addicted, but a word adjacent to addicted. I don't know what it is liking of. I was of not being present, like, of being zoned out of not, you know, tv, which is like the, for me the ultimate brain off, like world doesn't exist activity. And I didn't realize how prevalent that was in my life until I had a child who was like, good luck with that lady. Like you're happy, you're going to be present or I want to be. Right. I want to be present for her. And I'm not saying it's an automatic because you have to work to do that. But anyway, my point is I think that what we're talking about here on a different level is being present in life. Right. Because joy does call you into your body and into your presence. And so I think before we started hitting record, you were saying the flip side of being able to feel joy is also being able to feel deep grief. And yeah. So I'm curious how you feel about that in terms of motherhood in general. But is this something you come up with in your work, you know, being present in life? Because I'm assuming that this can be a thing for other people too. Oh, absolutely. I love that you've drawn, drawn this link as well, because that is it. Particularly when I Use that language around deep joy. Deep joy requires deep presence. And it's not presence. I think we can talk about it sometimes. Like, we need to be present to our child whilst we're playing or present to this conversation or something like that. But presence to your, to you, to yourself. Yes. To the feelings in your body and also to the whispers of your soul, to, you know, the desires in your heart, to, like, all of these subtle things that are going on at all times. So it's kind of bringing ourselves, bringing ourselves within, coming, coming back to that inner expression. And something else when you were speaking, that kind of pinged for me and now I've lost it. It'll come back. It'll come back. It'll definitely come back. Yeah, I'll talk about it in another, in another way and then probably ignite that. So part of the reason that this has been so topical for me is I have a new friend in my life who's also a mom. Oh, yeah, Motherhood. We were talking about motherhood. There you go. All right, I'm going to leave it at that. I'll let you say what you're going to say. Yeah, I'm gonna wanna. I'm gonna wanna know about the new friends and we'll come back. So this is the, the really interesting piece for me around motherhood is that particularly early motherhood, whether that's, you know, your first child, multiple children, stepchildren, like whatever constellation that looks like for you personally in those early moments, early months, early years, we're really in these thick of it, the thick of it. But we're also in the thick of newness. Everything we're doing just about is brand new to us. And there's this kind of, yes, there's this misnomer that, oh, it just comes naturally and all of these things. But actually, when you go back to that, the needs framework I shared before, around certainty and uncertainty, you are swimming in a pool of uncertainty constantly. And at the same time, you are in a brand new season of your life. So that's a whole new level of newness. So this brand new season of life is suddenly like possibly showing up as, you know, stuckness and stagnancy and frustration or lack of joy. Because let's just put aside some of the physiological things going on in terms of sleep and, you know, the energy output of taking care of a newborn or, you know, creating milk and all the things. Right. So we're just going to put that aside for a moment. But there's all this other newness going on and uncertainty. And you might be feeling some stagnancy or some frustration that you no longer feel as good as you did, or you no longer, like, maybe you're not. The conversations that used to light you up no longer light you up. Or maybe your joyful place was sitting down and watching that TV show, like, you shared Cody. And it's like, well, that's just not happening at the moment. I'm not just. I'm not getting to that level of unpluggedness. For me, it's like books. I'm literally reading about 12 books at the moment. Because reading looks like one sentence at a time, right? So, you know, like. But it brings me joy. So if I have. It's kind of like that dance of adaptation. And so motherhood is this mix of uncertainty, which means there's peace around joy. It's almost further away for us because it's swimming in the pool of uncertainty. And we're thinking, oh, we'll just get to it. We'll just get to it. Oh, that's certain. That'll just show up. Like, soon as I turn my attention to it, it'll just show up. But it doesn't. Joy is a muscle. Joy is a muscle that, you know, we need to work out. We need to do these, like, repetitive tasks and exercises to train our body how to experience it so that it knows that it's safe. I love that. Yeah, it's. It's so powerful, like, how habitual we are as creatures. Right. Like, I think about that a lot is. And it's so easy, you know, especially if you're a certain way, to just, like, want to stay in the. Because we do, right? Like, our brains are like, you're safe. You're alive. That's all I care about. So keep doing what you're doing. You know, it's working. I don't know what. Like, there is a primitive part of us, right, that does think joy is irrelevant because it's like, no, you're alive. That's all I care about. And so I think sometimes in motherhood, what's going on is you're more in that primitive part, right? Because you have to be to keep this thing alive that you've just birthed. Human. Sorry, everybody. A beautiful human that you've just birthed alive. And all the physiological stuff that's happening. So we do sort of shift into that. And, you know, I didn't realize that this would be so important to me after having a child, but I am really enthralled with The. I said this on a different podcast, but with the lack of like, conversation and you know, really, what's the word? Like, mentorship is not the word, but something like that around, like, I wish someone would sit you down, whoever it be, and just be like, hey, my darling, just know like when you first get pregnant or like a little bit in the way, right? Maybe halfway through, just know that. Don't even try to just like be the person you were. Just, just be new, you know, be new. Challenge your identity. Everything you used to love, like, question that, you know, like, I wish there was more of that preparation beyond just like put meals in your freezer, which is great. Definitely do that. But like, please, definitely do that. Yeah, please definitely do that. Like, I did not do that. Definitely do that. But. But, you know, like, I feel like these, this is the stuff that comes up because we're unprepared and we have no ceremony around this huge transition. So I want to talk a little bit more about that aspect of your work, like motherhood, you know, all of that stuff that you do. Oh my God, so powerful. Everything you shared. I had a mentor in that kind of mid pregnancy phase that I had known for many years. And I was like, literally, I was like, when I get pregnant, you're going to be my mentor. Because her work is just so powerful and she brings in all of these different pieces. And there was a conversation that we had distinctly around this word back that, that just got planted. She's like, there's no back now. We didn't talk about it necessarily in the context of going back to your former self and your expressions and your joy and all of that. I think we might have been speaking in the context of your physical body, but that word alone, just like that line that she kind of inserted was helpful in that kind of, okay, there is no back, but it's all just still brand new and fresh. And I think this piece, I talk a lot about seasonality, cyclicality in motherhood, entrusting this season of your life and trusting that things are just constantly changing. I think our, our new little babies can teach us that as well. Like, I, I'm pretty sure we've all said a thousand times like, oh, how quickly time is changing. Even if you're, you know, if you're an auntie and you, you know, or to, you know, friends, babies and things like that, like, you can see how quickly time goes. So, yeah, I think that's such a beautiful point, is just kind of this acknowledgment now. This Is not unique to. I think it just makes it feel more in your face. Yeah. I think, like, we are always changing, you know, with or without. Very true babies. Yeah. It's just that we don't bring that level of attention to it. And I think it's just such a. Such a massive point of transition in our lives. This. This piece. I. Have you heard of the word matrescence? Has that come up in your. Yeah, so. So this word of matrices, if listeners haven't heard of it, I'm not going to do it. It justice in this moment. But, like, I think of it one way that has been described to me is like, we talk about adolescence and everyone gets it. And everyone's like, oh, yes, there's a big change. Lots of changes going on there. But we don't talk about Matrix. Right. All the changes that happen in motherhood. And what I love is that this conversation is out there. When I first became a father, I was like, oh, like, no one's talking about it. And now I'm like, oh, I mean, yes, because of the work. I. I swim in. I see it more often, but also, like, we are talking about it as being a season of change and all of these things, but at the same point, there's a layer beneath that. You can know that this is a season. You can know that there's all these changes going on, but there's this layer beneath it for me that joy becomes really, really critical. Because also the almost subconscious dialogue that I find and have found as someone who is focused on joy, as someone who has and has always had quite a natural ability to reframe and to kind of see. See a positive outcome or see the possibility in motherhood. I almost, like, I got depleted on that. I. The conversations that we're having were all about hard things. Oh, are you sleeping? All this. Anytime someone was checking in, they weren't saying, how are you? They were saying, are you sleeping? Oh, you know, is the baby doing X? Is it this? Like, there were. It was almost like this magnetic force that not even just like with other mothers, but everyone around me wanted to talk about the hard stuff, how terrible it was. The humor was all, like, jokey, jokey about, like, the bad things. And I was like, can someone please just, like, you know, could someone just please ask me, oh, what's your favorite thing about what your baby's doing right now? Could someone please just say, like, oh, what's bringing. What's the cutest thing they did yesterday? And I know that, you know, like, these might Sound like frivolous questions, but, like, no longer in another season of your life as you're allowed. And I think this is kind of beautiful, messy, magical. Think of it. Season of Motherhood throws all of that up for us, and I think it just becomes more vibrant, and so we really have to tune into it all. Renee Brown has this incredible quote that is something along the lines of, if you. Sorry, Brene. Your words precisely right. But it's effectively along the lines of, we cannot selectively numb our emotions. If we numb our pain, we are numbing our joy. And this is the piece that is just so relevant, I feel, in the Season of Life, because I think there's this misnomer that. Well, one, there's this kind of societal, kind of weird patterning around talking about only the hard stuff. Yep. And then there's this other piece around. If you see another mama talking about the joyful things, well, you kind of feel bad or, like, you know, that's not okay. Or they must have X, Y, and Z. Like, this is. And I'm like, what if. What if both just coexisted? And actually, that is the truth. Both. Two. Both do coexist. We just don't. We just don't understand the dynamic of what's playing out. So. So, yes, when you open yourself up to experience more of the pain and acknowledge it and the grief, you are, like, opening up this well of plenty inside of you. Your body is amazing. Like, the way that your emotions are your message messengers is just so critical. And when we're closing ourselves off to that, we're like, I don't want to. I don't want to talk about. Actually, I'm having a really freaking hard day, and I don't want to be a mama today. I really don't. And I've had those moments. I've, like, closed the bathroom door or saying, like, can I just not. Can I step out of this role? Like, can I just not do it today? Can someone take. Take this on? And then that turns into, like, a resentment cycle of, why is it me? Right. But I've also had these moments where I'm like, oh, my God, my daughter is the best human in the whole wide world. Can someone please come and look at her and just see? Like, look how delightful she is. She's so smart. She's so talented. You know, like, five minutes apart, literally. So I don't think it's about running away from the feelings, because I think if we run away from either. Either end of those spectrums, we're Running away from our lives. So to me, this piece around joy and joy and motherhood is actually bringing it back to this point about presence. It is deep presence. It's deep joy, but it's. It's being deeply and fully in your life. Because to me, it's like, why would you. Why would you live any other way? Yeah. Oh, it's so good. It's so important and so good and so big, you know, I feel like a lot of what we've talked about today is just really big. And I hope listeners that you can just take a moment to digest, because I'm really feeling like almost like this was in a. Like a. Like a. Like a good cup of coffee, to be honest. A good Australian cup of coffee. I drank a lot of coffee in Australia, and I don't drink coffee at home because it's not really friends with my body. But in Australia, you know, everything's different over there. So anyway, you can't go to Paris. And not eat croissants. Yeah, exactly. I have very fond memories of sitting in a cafe in Australia, drinking many a coffee. My point was in, like, that energizing way. And that really, like, opened your blood vessels. Like, that's what I feel about this conversation is just, you know, so I just am excited for everyone to hear this. You've already heard this now that I'm saying this. But anyway, I don't want to get too rambly. Okay, so just thank you. Thank you for all that you've brought forward today. It's just been really amazing. And I want to. Before we say goodbye, I want to sort of talk about, what are you doing now? Like, how can people get in your world? What's the best way to get in your world? All of those things. All the juicy things. So as you were talking, excuse me. I could hear listeners going, but what about the tools? I want more tools. I want more tools. Right. Yeah. This is the constant conversation. Let's get into the feeling. You got to feel it first before we jump into this. So I just want to acknowledge that feeling in your body that, you know, and just to kind of allow to sit there. We have actually gone over at least two or three things if you replay the conversation. But it's just have a little. A little visualization tool that can take you 10 seconds, which is really just this constant practice of getting out of your head into your heart. And literally, if you just take away that sentence with you today, that's enough. You don't even need to listen to this visualization. But please send it when you're busy in your head. Yeah, just keep getting, getting into your heart. Getting into your heart, getting into your heart. So yeah, just wanted to add that. Where can you find me? Okay, so my favorite place to hang out in the online world is on Instagram at Mama Joy Movement. So M a M A Joy Movement. And I love writing. I feel like I'm a real like creative writer. I just feel in my happy place when I'm there. So come and join me in my kind of newsletter, email, letter, community as well, because that's where I share a lot more kind of juicy intimidy, behind the scenes vibe, which you could just DM me on Instagram and I can send it to you, but if you're not on Instagram, just send me an email. And what's, what's like in your work world? What are some of the ways people can work with you these days? Oh, right. Oh, fun question. And we'll see, we'll see what we can come up with. So I have this really amazing event coming up. Depending on when this podcast is coming out, the event is late May. Oh yeah, It'll be out way before then. Okay, cool. So it'll be called Mama Joy Ignite and it's this online retreat, like exchange experience to connect you with global speakers on all kind of experts in the motherhood field. But to connect you into deep wisdom. Cody's going to be speaking just kind of drop, drop the magic there. And last year's event, we had any energy workers, healers, you know, practitioners through to psychotherapists, had a dance instructor, a fashion stylist. Like, it's just this juicy mix of just bringing it back to you as mama, not as a parent, not as a, you know, what are you doing in your career? Like, let's just focus all the attention on you. So I think that's, that's going to be a really amazing way to just kind of swim in some juiciness. And I, I, I run a range of coaching programs. Right now my private coaching programs are probably the most magical place to start. Amazing. It's so funny, I was just realizing that when I was listening to you describe it this time around. Obviously I've read about it and you know, but I was like, oh, it's kind of like this your version of what I used to do in my circus life, which was I hosted a variety show and I would bring like all different, you know, all different types of performers together. And it was like, it's like a, it's like an online mother variety show for the like wellness. I knew we'd had had this conversation before, before I titled it because I'm loving this to remind me in 2026 it's going to be the Mamahood. What? The Mama Joint Variety Show. I love it. That's exactly. Yeah, it just came to me. I was like seeing that because yeah, I feel like you and I both. I don't know this about you, but I'm guessing that you like to bring different things together and create an experience. Right? So yeah, definitely. Check that out. The link will be all the links will be attached for people that are driving and all the things. But thank you so much Danielle. This was such a beautiful, joyful conversation and really enlightening for me. I learned a lot today and yeah, I'm gonna just end it with reminding people that joy has to move with you. So question, what brings you joy today in a light hearted way? Thank you so much Cody. It was a joy to be here. Thank you. I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Thank you so much for listening everybody. I loved this conversation. I hope and I'm sure you did too. Check the show notes to find all the ways that you can connect with Danielle. She has an amazing event coming up that I am a part of called the Mama Joy Summit. It is happening very soon if you are listening in real time in May of 2025. It is a sacred retreat like experience. You heard her talk about it. So head over to the links in the show notes and check that out. Okay. I want to chat with you as our little feng shui moment of today about your stove. So we all would like more abundance and more prosperity in our lives. And this doesn't just mean money. This means time. This means community. This means everything that prosperity and abundance means to you. So one of the simplest ways we can engage with that energy is to engage with the prosperity maker in our home, which is the stove. So in addition to just making sure you're using your stove, you're cleaning your stove, even if you don't like to cook, make a cup of of tea or if nothing else, just stand by our stove, turn on all the burners for a few seconds, envision the full prosperity and abundance in your life activating and turn them all off. But the more we engage with this space, the more we cook and provide nourishing food for ourselves and for whoever we live with, the more we are stoking that abundance and prosperity in our lives. And I have a few things coming up I have some spaces right now for one on one consultations. Those are month long experiences. They're the way that if you want to go deep, this is the way to do it. We get into all the feng shui of your individual space and a lot more because I bring myself to these experiences and myself me. Hi. I have a background in other things too, right. In health coaching and I'm certified in a lot of other other different modalities all around healing. So I bring my full self. I mean I bring my full self to everything I do, guys. But pretty much unless it's something like I don't know, washing the dishes. But really I don't know. Okay, you don't need to hear me say this. But anyway, yeah it's. That is the place to engage in a deep way. The reports are in depth. They're usually like 30 pages or so long. We go into your personal cosmology from the nine star key methodology. We go into the, the birth chart, a bit of your home and just really go deep about the relationships based on this perspective of the people in your home. How you can enhance those the elements. And then you have a month with me to really dig in and to make some meaningful and lasting changes. Changes. People have manifested all sorts of things through these experiences. From better family relationships to finding what they feel is their purpose and pursuing that to finding a doctor that is finally has an answer for something that has been going on for years. So there's all sorts of things that happen when you really dive deep into your home. And I have a few spots open for the spring and the summer. I don't do a lot of these every month because they are consuming for both of for me mostly. So yeah, hop on in if you're ready. Find, find me on Instagram, find my email, send me a message, let me know we can talk about it even more if you'd like or if you're just ready to sign up, you will find the link in the show notes. The other thing I've got coming up is I have starting in likely June right now the date is June 8th. We'll see a 90 day group experience called the Lucky Home Blueprint. And this is where we are going to dive deep as a group. So we're going to be looking at all different elements of Feng shui from the five elements to the bagua map, Yin Yang. We're really going to get the main things that | 00:00:03.280 - 01:00:33.922